363 Comments
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wrknight's avatar

Interesting that Biden presents a map showing states benefitting from support of war in Ukraine, but doesn't present map showing taxpayers who will pay for it.

Feral Finster's avatar

If only there were things that the government could spend money on that don't generate a net negative ROI, if only it were possible to spend on things like "healthcare" or "education" or "infrastructure".

It's as if Washington has never heard of such things, so the only choices on offer are "getting people slaughtered so we can sell arms!" or "nothing".

JP Spatzier's avatar

No. We are paying for ALL of that in Ukraine.. not just the weapons.

We FULLY FUND the Ukrainian govt.

Feral Finster's avatar

Good point. We pay for Ukrainian pensions, government salaries and Bastet knows what else.

Folks in Kiev tell me that corruption has gotten much worse with the flood of free Yankee dollars and zero accountability. Like Afghanistan or South Vietnam, corruption was always there and always bad, but this is a whole new level.

Robert Weber's avatar

Can #Trump and #RazPutin be trusted? Would you trust a serial killer? C=> https://substack.com/@exvivospace/note/c-46263889 #Stew-preston's

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Jan 5, 2024
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JP Spatzier's avatar

That’s why they want them to go fight & die

wrknight's avatar

Actually, healthcare, education and infrastructure generate a POSITIVE ROI. Healthcare investments yield healthier people who earn more and pay more taxes. Education investments yield smarter people who can be more productive and more creative and earn higher incomes and pay more in taxes. Infrastructure improves efficiency which improves profits and yields taxes.

Bombs, on the other hand, yield only negative ROI as there is no benefit. The bombs, munitions and weapons we are sending to Ukraine and Israel are not needed for our protection, and do not enhance our security. Instead, they kill, maim and destroy, and then we will be required to financially help the victims which will cost us much more. As a result, there is only cost and NO positive return.

Feral Finster's avatar

That was precisely my point. Healthcare, infrastructure and education generate a positive ROI.

Bombs generate an overall net negative ROI.

David Otness's avatar

But, the poisoning of some of the world's best farmland via artillery rounds' residue and bomb / missile poisons can be a win/win as well. Or even the depleted uranium. (Sadly, I think most of that was taken out in a warehouse via Kinzhal though.) Even all of the lowly lead from likely billions of expended small arms fire.

Our Owners and overlords ---who know best about things of this nature---had and have no compunction about using it for good reason. They (would have) just mixed the grain grown in the devastated areas into the ground grasshoppers and called it "Good!" Or Good! Healthy! Nutritious!

SRSLY, you need to think this through to its proper and psychopathic conclusion.

Mmmm.... Nummy! And profitable!

Burnt taco's avatar

They yield a high roi for defense contractors and bankers

Pelopidas's avatar

Your premise is sometime true with private investments, rarely with public, especially federal. Healthcare and education are too important and too personal to controlled by huge bureaucracies. But, “yes”, they are better for long term productivity than shipping bombs to Ukraine, no matter how you slice it.

wrknight's avatar

You really believe your healthcare is not controlled by huge bureaucracies now? What do you call United Healthcare if not a huge, bloated, profit maximizing bureaucracy? Have you ever looked at the differences between Medicare and United Healthcare? Things like overhead costs, payout ratios, claim denial rates, profit margins, etc?

Pelopidas's avatar

My healthcare is not. Maybe yours is, IDK. This conversation was from about 7 months ago, btw. And, I think you’re making the same point I was.

Cesare di Monte Calvi's avatar

We've been paying Zelensky's leeches, as he's on the Fox News front-lines, for all these costs:

● provide housing and utility subsidies to 2.9 million Ukrainian citizens;

● pay salaries for over 512,000 teachers and school workers,

● pay salaries for over 57,000 first responders;

● support pensions for over 8 million vulnerable Ukrainian citizens;

● provide social assistance for over 730,000 Ukrainian citizens

● pay salaries for over 152,000 civil service employees and over 515,000 healthcare employees.

I understand Ukraine needs help.

But so does Hawaii.

Our own struggling, vulnerable pensioners.

Our PTSD'ed veterans.

Our unemployed and our miserable homeless.

Our teachers and school workers.

Our low-income families and our single mothers.

As many as 9 million children[i] in the United States live in "food insecure" homes. That means that those households don't have enough food for every family member to lead a healthy life. Perhaps they’d benefit from some care and love, help from the government that was given to 152,000 civil service leeches, sorry, employees in Ukraine?

Translation: fuck that disgusting leech and three gazillion times more repulsive ghouls in D.C. pulling his strings.

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Jan 5, 2024
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JP Spatzier's avatar

I remember a few years ago when a cousin came over & said white supremacy is biggest threat to America 🇺🇸 🤪🤪🤪🤪. .. and he’s in Washington.. I really can’t believe he bought it ... “a white paper study so” 🤮💩

Little Nell's avatar

Look, we all know that the streets of the United States could be paved in gold if we stopped exporting weapons, terror and war, and stopped invading Third World countries, whenever. If we kept our money at home, took care of our own, looked after our elderly, our children, the dispossessed, disabled, etc., we could have a paradise. But that’s not going to happen, not in this lifetime.

Ukraine is not the problem. Zelenskyy is not a leech. He has wanted to make peace and been prevented from doing so by the United States and the U.K., his two biggest backers. The unfortunate consequence of this shameful interference is that Ukraine, not Russia, is being bled white.

And, I’m sorry, but Putin wrote a 1000 page treatise that he made all of his flunkies and hacks read about the mystical bond that unites Russia and Ukraine and why it must never be forgotten or broken; this is the basis of his war. It’s a load of bullshit, but wars have been started for less.

Little Nell's avatar

Sir, please pardon me if I erred, but at the end of your piece you wrote: Fuck that leech. I assumed you meant Zelenskyy

Cesare di Monte Calvi's avatar

I wrote "Zelensky's leeches," not "Zelensky leech." He's an idiot actor turned political puppet turned Biden's pet criminal who seems to have outgrown his britches and will soon be disposed of like any other disposable puppet before him.

Chris Manuel's avatar

While I agree with much of what you say, The Ukrainian position has always been that they will sign a peace treaty only if Russia withdraws from all of its territory including Crimea! There is no way that Putin would do this as the affect on his domestic audience would be catastrophic,

What is more Putin has never honoured any agreement and also let us not forget what he did when Lukashenko of Belarus lost the elections... It was Russian troops on the streets that prevented the democratic will of the Belarussians

HT JR.'s avatar

But see if they solve these problems at home, the people who work in government and benefit financially from the doom loop would have nothing to do all day, which, of course would be the best thing for us at this point.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

taxpayers? you mean Chinese and Japanese institutions buying US Govt' bonds ?

wrknight's avatar

Guess who will be paying the interest on those bonds? It won't be General Dynamics, Boeing or Raytheon and it won't be Santa Clause.

The debt service (that's the interest we pay on all those lovely bonds) is now as much as the total defense budget. And sooner or later, someone has to pay off on those lovely bonds. You really think for one minute that U.S. taxpayers aren't going to get stiffed with the tab?

Laurent Renaud's avatar

The interests on those bonds , and the redemption of those bonds at maturity, can be paid through issuance of ... new bonds. Until nobody want to buy them anymore. Then trust me , the least of your concerns will be how much taxes you’ll need to pay .

wrknight's avatar

Continuing to borrow to pay one's debts while continuing to run up more debt is not smart policy. Sooner or later, the piper will demand his due. If not in taxes, it may come in the form of ultra high interest rates, run away inflation, economic meltdown or some other form of economic disaster, but whichever it is, it will be the little guy that suffers the most.

There has never been an economic disaster in history that hasn't resulted in a net transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

You guys have been doing exactly that for decades now. And yes, if US bonds crash it won’t be pretty. But taxes will not be the problem. Staying alive will be

Pangolin Chow Mein's avatar

Putin’s asinine invasion of Ukraine has made us energy dominant!! Funding Ukraine pays for itself because it increases our LNG exports and strengthens the dollar. Natural gas is now the most important fossil fuel and America is the Saudi Arabia of natural gas. Hard to believe it was just 2008 that America was at its weakest point since 1864 after Bush/Cheney spent 8 years making China great again.

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Nov 25, 2024
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Pangolin Chow Mein's avatar

Correct, we export cheap natural gas to our allies. Btw, the natural gas comes from Speaker Johnson’s district which is obviously a strong Trump district.

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Jan 5, 2024
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Chris Manuel's avatar

Interesting to see that you do not understand how very well the arms Industry in the US is benefitting from this war and the tax dollars that result! Also interesting that you are unaware of the Lend Lease arrangements!

The US Tax payers will do very well supporting Ukraine!

Also do not forget that the Initial support for the Ukrainians was given by trump, or that Mitch McConnell supports their cause!

wrknight's avatar

You missed the point completely. I am very aware of how I am subsidizing the arms industry. My point is that Biden's map doesn't show all the states in which people like me are picking up the tab for those who are gorging themselves at the public trough.

Biden's policies amount to a form of reverse Robin Hood. Rob the poor people to pay the arms makers.

Kristi O'Sullivan's avatar

The US leadership has projected every evil notion and fantasy they have onto Putin. We now know when they bad mouth Putin they are really describing themselves; Putin has proved himself to be a true statesman and his people are right behind him. Blessed are those who have leadership which really gives a damn about their own people. I hope more people wake up to the fact the US is a terrorist state without peer - they are the wind beneath Israel’s wings as genocide is committed in Palestine. It’s out of control.

wrknight's avatar

The problem is what to do about it. With both major political parties bought and paid for by the MIC, Wall Street, AIPAC and other high rollers, our options are limited.

Kristi O'Sullivan's avatar

Exactly. And I also agree with ‘the long warred’ in that we keep voting the bums in. My instinct is that it’s going to get worse before it gets better because the uni party neocons, while evil, are also not that bright, they don’t seem to learn from their mistakes (which supports the theory that the the death and destruction is the point). Something’s gotta give and for the US it’ll likely be the money - the country has none. My hope is that we go bust and retreat to rebuild - state by state - before we provoke another power into proactive retaliation.

the long warred's avatar

There’s no MIC, there’s politicians, and there’s voters who like free stuff. Who’s bought and paid for more than We The People?

The MIC is a myth. Especially the severely atrophied Defense Industrial base.

https://acquisitiontalk.com/

Of course, the truth doesn’t fit on a Bumper Sticker, and we damn sure don’t want to see it in the mirror. We got bought too. 🇺🇸

wrknight's avatar

I will not argue semantics with you, but I will offer my only suggestion for a course of action that could possibly defeat the two party system:

Vote against every incumbent in every election regardless of party, thus enforcing single term limits and limiting the power of money.

the long warred's avatar

Perhaps that could work.

Except The Chief and Main Incumbency is Democracy.

We got the government we wanted; it pays us.

Really, we're at the point where Berthold Brecht's sarcasm comes to life.

We'd have to replace the Voters.

FreeRange's avatar

spot on. I actually said this to a friend last week : the problem isn't really the elected officials , it is the voters. Until they change their habits, which they won't without a lot of pain, we are toast as a Constitutional Republic.

Dan Henry's avatar

Isn’t that what illegal immigration is all about…

Burnt taco's avatar

Except a never ending 900 billion budget item that never stops growing. Most of which perpetuates weapons mfg and “advancing democracy “ in any shithole with an oil patch or not.

the long warred's avatar

Uh, 770$B but that’s from a $4.5Trillion budget, and actually it’s pretty stable. 15% of budget.

However I’m in favor of all alliances and treaties abrogated and an end to protecting the global commons of sea and air, just our own.

Do you agree the treaties should end before the military budget, which is paltry compared to obligations, should be cut?

Cut treaties then budget?

Burnt taco's avatar

Some sure, likely not all. And certainly any that remain should have reciprocated budgeting

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

who gives a damn about people? Putin? 80% of people in his oil-rich empire dont have toilets in the house. They use outhouses, in 21st century! People are pulled from their families and thrown into the trenches and made go into what they call "meat attacks" because this is what they are, meat, dying for nothing. Then, their bodies are not pulled out from the battlefield, so that hte "true stateman" doesn't need to pay the families. Why are they dying and becoming compost in the Ukrainian land? How can anyone support a top corrupted criminal in the world, and not see that if he takes Ukraine, the US will spend more, way more, to stop him from going further. If nothing else, check net worth of Putin and Zelensky and compare the two. Seriously.

Punditman's avatar

I'm no fan of Putin, in fact I hope for his demise (as long as his replacement is not more hard line). But I'm also a realist. And seriously, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest his intentions in this conflict ever extended beyond Ukraine. If you have such evidence please provide it.

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

There are three issues with this invasion related to your question.

1. Taking Ukraine has a worldwide implications. It disregards international law, post-WWII borders, and enables other dictators to do the same. Think of Xi and Taiwan, for example.

2. Evidence is plenty for any Russian-speaking individual who listens ( though with disgust) to Russian TV. "We shall take Berlin, Poland, etc" is a common narrative. I come across it often, however, I don't store evidence on this topic as no one from my circles ever argues that. When I come across it again, I will share.

3. It is consistent with the mindset and actions of the gang that manages ruzzia and its brainwashed population with hurt national pride, entitlement, imperial thinking. Why, do you think, they keep talking about NATO? It is an obstacle.

An independent observer's avatar

Don’t waste your breath. Those who admire Putin are clueless. They would not last a week in the Russian of today, where citizen are imprisoned for calling the war a war and not a military operation, and where all the prominent intellectuals and celebrities who have raised their voices against the invasion of Ukraine are labeled” foreign agents” and canceled. Most had to leave the country. And what about the numerous statues of Stalin that have reappeared around the country and they even try to rename the cities back to include Stalin’s name in them. Stalin, who was a monster. Putin has been in power for five terms. And in regards to people supporting him - a reminder is in order how German public supported Hitler. He certainly had the popular vote. Same here. I could go on, but it is futile. It boggles my mind how American right all of sudden fell in love with this pos KGB thug. I am disgusted, and I hope this is because they don’t know enough. I am ready to excuse it by sheer ignorance and misunderstanding. Because there can be no other excuse.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

That's what people like you said when he sent his troops to Crimea and Georgia before. How many invasions you need?

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Jan 5, 2024
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Laurent Renaud's avatar

Not related to my comment, but whatever...

Chris Manuel's avatar

Wow..

Your ignorance is embarrassing! Ukraine was not the first Victim of Putin's ambition! Georgia was also invaded in 2008…! Also look at which he did to Chechnya!

Punditman's avatar

Wow. For the smartest guy in the room, you seemed to wander off topic pretty quickly. You have missed my point as you have with others. Maybe try not starting with an ad hominem attack and stop putting thoughts in people's heads that they don't have.

Reader's avatar

You are a perfect product of western propaganda. When was the last time you visited Russia? It is impossible to read your comment without laughing. At you. You poor souls.

Little Nell's avatar

Responses like yours: “Oh you poor benighted people! You have succumbed to Western propaganda! You have no idea how ignorant you are!” are so stupid one wonders why you took the time out of your busy day to bother writing it. There you are in your dark corner laughing up your sleeve at every single person’s stupidity. A lonesome pastime, surely. But then you’re a permanent outsider, aren’t you? Smarter than everyone, nay brilliant! if only the clods and morons could see that! Why don’t you dazzle us with your brilliance and cut through the Gordian knot of idiocy that surrounds this thorny issue?

Laurent Renaud's avatar

Putin is a dictator physically eliminating his opponents and a sociopath bent on restoring the old Russian Empire, no matter the cost. And you are his mouthpiece here. Congrats

Kristi O'Sullivan's avatar

Nonsense - Putin tried several times for a diplomatic solution - the US blocked efforts.

If you don’t buy Matt’s article, try listening to people who understand the reality like Prof Mearsheimer, Prof Sachs, Matthew Hoh, Larry Johnson, Phil Giraldi, Col MacGregor, Scott Ritter, Ray McGovern, Alistair Crooke (among many others) along with the YouTube videos of immigrants to Russia which are largely Americans who are working to debunk the Russia-hate. Beware propaganda it keeps the MIC rich. If Putin were such a threat to others why is our and NATO’s military so woeful - outdated and under resourced? Because we are not threatened, that’s why.

The US are the warmongers- always have been since WW2 - and if the shameful support of Israeli genocide doesn’t awaken you to that fact then you’re beyond hope.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

Yeah, I know the drill. We in the West are sooooo evil. But guys like Putin and Hamas are honest , peace-minded and courageous liberators. Fuck that. Don’t buy it. What are Russian soldiers doing in countries which are NOT Russia? (Ukraine? Georgia? Syria? Even in West Africa now?) . Same logic should apply if you can’t stand the West sending its troops elsewhere...

Kristi O'Sullivan's avatar

Best to asking what western countries are doing in those areas

Laurent Renaud's avatar

Very good at not answering the question and go all “what about...” huh? But see, I am an awful, unashamed pro-West guy. I don’t want to live in a country with the same guy at the head for 30 years trying to pretend he’s no dictator. I am perfectly fine with our elected officials and their policy to support Ukraine. WHICH IS A FREE COUNTRY AND OBVIOUSLY WANTS TO REMAIN ONE. Now go hate me, and go live in Moscow if it’s si much better there

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Kristi O'Sullivan's avatar

To further your point: “The World Economic Forum wasn’t simply the brainchild of Klaus Schwab, but was actually born out of a CIA-funded Harvard program headed by Henry Kissinger and pushed to fruition by John Kenneth Galbraith and the “real” Dr. Strangelove, Herman Kahn. This is the amazing story behind the real men who recruited Klaus Schwab, who helped him create the World Economic Forum, and who taught him to stop worrying and love the bomb.” Note the role of Harvard.

https://unlimitedhangout.com/2022/03/investigative-reports/dr-klaus-schwab-or-how-the-cfr-taught-me-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bomb/

Chris Manuel's avatar

Wow... All the sources you quote as those would wade happily in the mire of conspiracy theories... Interesting that you should find the opinions of a convicted paedophile who is being paid by the Kremlin as objective! I am of course speaking of Scott Ritter!

I don't buy this article as Putin's history and his speeches and essays are completely ignored,

Putin has always believed that Ukraine does not have the right to exist as an independent Country!

Earl Cheffield's avatar

Only if you're a moron who still believes the same propagandists who lied about 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Venezuela, Russiagate, Yemen, Ukraine and still lie for Israel. 🤡

Chris Manuel's avatar

What would you know about it Cheffield?

You have never visited Russia or Ukraine and have no understanding of their history, culture or people!

You are an anti US louse wiho is an active support of Hammas cheering on what they did to the Jewish women and children!

What is more you applaud the actions of a despotic dictator who has slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent Ukrainian women and children!

Reader's avatar

You are a perfect product of western propaganda. When was the last time you visited Russia? It is impossible to read your comment without laughing. At you. You poor souls.

Earl Cheffield's avatar

No more than Biden's justice department literally trying to jail his only serious opponent and remove him from the ballot

Chris Manuel's avatar

So speaks the Scot who have never visited the US either and who spends his life suckling at the teat of conspiracy theorist sites!

Earl Cheffield's avatar

Visited the US multiple times. Got family there. Have you ever been right about anything? 🤡

Laurent Renaud's avatar

Oh yeah? The Colorado Supreme court is part of DoJ now? The dude thought he could get away with anything , he finds it’s not exactly the case. And comparing how an opponent like Navalny is treated vs how the king of MAGA is treated is quite the stretch 😂

Earl Cheffield's avatar

Navalny is a far right fascist which is exactly what you libtards accuse Trump of

Laurent Renaud's avatar

Always voted conservative, dumbass. But not the MAGA-retard type. And no, Navalny is a fascist only in the propaganda you swallow straight from Putin’s dick

Earl Cheffield's avatar

You're a whole different breed of imbecile, arent you? 🤡 Like theres any fucking difference between your genocide supporting, imperialist colonist, uniparty state? Both sides bought and sold for Bibi's sheckles and the Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Pfizer, Monsanto shareholder class. Wild that you still partake in the circus of the absurd. 😄

Chris Manuel's avatar

Hahaha, and again you demonstrate your ignorance! You are an embarrassment to Scotland!

Navalny is a very brave man who opposed Putin and has received a 20 year sentence by returning to Russia when he could have easily stayed in Europe!

Get a life and do some research for once!

Earl Cheffield's avatar

He's another fluffy fascist like your Nazi pals in Ukraine and Israhell. 🤡

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Jan 5, 2024
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Laurent Renaud's avatar

Tu as fini de copier/coller toujours les mêmes trucs sans rapport avec ce que j'écris?!

Mazirian's avatar

What a stupid take. Muted.

JP Spatzier's avatar

did you here Russian is taking DNA samples of all Russian born babies .. Russia going to digital id & $$$

.. same as WEF plan 🤷‍♀️

I’m not sure what to believe about him ..

Kristi O'Sullivan's avatar

I didn’t hear that about the DNA. I did read that Russia’s use of digital currencies would be limited to businesss-to-business and country to country transactions but not to be used with the general public. I can’t remember where I read that or I’d share the link. But who knows ultimately what will happen. Certainly something to keep an eye on. I also have read that Putin’s not a WEF fan. Here just one article https://therealtruthnetworkcom.wordpress.com/2023/10/06/putin-warns-schwab/. The Zionist owned media won’t be straight on this issue as they are pro NWO. I think he and the other BRICS nations want nation-state sovereignty and not to have to be brought to heel by US hegemonic interests. Which makes sense to me - to each their own.

I’ve found this search engine useful when trying to find information www.yandex.ru - it offers up articles not easily found on Google (check out the DNA question there - some interesting. info).

Also I read from a substack writer who’s been regularly writing Situation Reports on the Ukraine war (Simplicius Substack - his work is free if interested. He also writes Dark Futura). Most recently in Dark Futura he reports that Putin has declared 2024 the year of the family and is giving women improved benefits.

I understand Putin is an Orthodox Christian, as is most of Russia, and is very protective of these values (anti LBGT). He’s been building churches at a record pace. I’m finding that - like or dislike Russian culture and history - we in the west have never been properly informed and have been herded into thinking Russia=evil. The US are masters at projection in my observation.

LindaWW's avatar

You’re ridiculous.

Chris Manuel's avatar

Hahaha... Putin is a dictator who have never been elected as President! Check you history and do some research otherwise you look like an imbecile!

You can start by reading a book called A Dirty War by Anna Politkovskaya about Putin's rise to power and the thousands that died on the way,

Anna was assassinated by Putin for writing this book and for her continued opposition to him despite warnings! Her book is available in English!

Royotoyo's avatar

"Young Russian conscripts have been dying at an even greater rate."

This is factually incorrect, doubly so, actually. There are no conscripts fighting in Ukraine, mostly due to a law from after the Chechen Wars that forbids them from participating in active hostilities except in an official state of war and/or martial law (neither in Russia now exist). Russia's fighting force is comprised of professional (contract) soldiers, mobilized reserves and a few private military contractors (mercenaries). Also, as others have mentioned, the idea that Russia's rate of losses are higher than Ukraine's contradicts all available evidence, and common sense, if you look at force ratios.

JP Spatzier's avatar

Try watching Colonel Douglas MacGregor or Scott Ritter for different numbers and take in progress 👍

Chris Manuel's avatar

Hahaha, that is hilarious that you would quite two conspiracy theorists who, at the outset of the war, said that Ukraine would fall within two weeks!

You also ignore the fact that both are paid by the Kremlin, and particularly Scott Ritter,

You also forget that Scott Ritter is a twice convicted Paedophile who has served jail time for his crimes,

mistcr's avatar

JL is right - both about the Russian law against conscripts participating in hostilities off Russian soil and also about losses.

Credible sources place Ukrainian losses anywhere from 350,000 to 500,000 KIA and Russian losses probably on the order of 50,000 - 70,000 KIA. Wounded is usually about 3x KIA. These more reliable estimates are based on studying obituaries and graveyards alongside official reports.

Ukraine publishes laughably unbelievable reports of losses, likely the source of the NYT estimate. Although, any western government can be relied on for false reporting on this matter.

Layla Osman Graham's avatar

“NATO antiwhite and antifamily”

Me: Bullshit

Chris Manuel's avatar

Hahaha... That is hilarious! It is very easy to see that the Russian losses far exceed those of Ukraine! What is more the Russian have over 150,000 dead this far!

To put this in perspective, The US listed 58,000 killed in Vietnam over TWENTY Years!!!

Madjack's avatar

How can so many of us(deplorables/clingers) have realized two years ago that a negotiated settlement was the only way forward? We are led by a sick, corrupt group of war mongers.

Chris Manuel's avatar

Whereas you are led by a belief that Putin honours his agreements and treaties.... He doesn't and never has!

What is more Putin has always stated that Ukraine has no right to exist as an independent country!

Do some research before posting such nonsense!

The Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom!!

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Nov 22, 2024
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Mazirian's avatar

You can f@@k right off with your ideological nonsense. Ukrainian men are getting killed by the truckload every single day. Now is a time for pragmatism not the emotional shrieks of a stupid woman who will never get within 10000 miles of the front line.

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Shagbark's avatar

You’re a fucking idiot. A dolt. A fool. You do and say the same childish nonsense all the time. What a TOTAL bore you must be in person.

Scott's avatar

One side spent the summer assaulting heavily fortified positions without air support and with a 1:10 deficit in artillery. The other side sat in their trenches and shot at them. Occasionally, they would retreat and let the enemy storm empty trenches while the artillery zeroed in on the position.

It’s not 1942. Russia is not sending wave after wave of assault troops at the enemy in the hope they will run out of ammunition or mooks to shoot back at them. Reporting on casualty ratios from western sources is absurd on its face.

norstadt's avatar

It should also be mentioned that demand for rightwing terrorism (e.g. among NYT readers) far exceeds the supply. So they radicalize, train, and arm Neo-Nazis who will end up with deep anti-US grievances.

Feral Finster's avatar

Basically a decent analysis, but Ukrainians are getting killed at a much higher rate than Russians.

There is a reason that Ukraine is press-ganging any warm live bodies it can muster, while Russia only had to partially mobilize reserves.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

Not sure where you get your numbers (looked at various sources and its all over the place) but if really there are more Ukrainian deaths , maybe it’s because Russia kills Ukrainian civilians but the reverse doesn’t happen....

Feral Finster's avatar

Except even Ukraine doesn't claim a large number of civilian deaths.

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

What is a "large number"? with civilian deaths, one death is too much. Btw, I provided some numbers coming from Putin himself in another answer to this thread.

Feral Finster's avatar

So you are doubtless incensed by civilian deaths in Russia, when Ukraine openly and intentionally targets civilians in terror attacks, right?

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

Huh? This sounds like an inverted question and a strange conclusion. Who is bombing Ukrainian civil infrastructure for almost two years now, with the biggest attack happening just three days ago? Who has been killing civilians and kidnapping Ukrainian children since Feb 2022? Are you trying to ignore this reality? Are we switching the topic?

Feral Finster's avatar

But but but you said one civilian death is a tragedy.

But only when it happens to our side, apparently.

Chris Manuel's avatar

Hahahaha... You really are being an imbecile! Why not check out what Putin did to Chechnya and then Syria ! The Ukrainians have not intentionally targeted civilians whereas it is part of Putin's tactics to try and terrify the Ukrainians,

It has not worked and the Ukrainians are behaving just like the British did during the Blitz in WW2!

Feral Finster's avatar

Yeah, all those Chechens volunteering to fight in Ukraine, Syria rescued from ISIS. So terrible.

Chris Manuel's avatar

Yes it does. It is estimated that over 10,000 Ukrainian civilians were killed in Mariupol alone!

Get a life and do some research before posting such anti Ukrainian nonsense... You are just embarrassing yourself!

Feral Finster's avatar

Israel killed more civilians in a couple of months than died in the entire war in Ukraine.

Otherwise you are argue by means of thought-terminating cliches.

Andy Dean's avatar

You must be daydreaming, Ukraine loses about 5 to 6 times more on the battlefield than Russia while resorting to killing “potentially problematic” civilians both with blue and red passports because terror tactics is the only available option to them.

Mazirian's avatar

The Russians have a qualitative and quantitative advantage. They’ve been attriting the AFU at a 5:1 - 10:1 ratio since the conflicts inception. A total of approx. 75k Russian KIA as opposed to >500k AFU.

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

noone knows the true rate besides the Russia and Ukraine. You don't either. But Russian analysts do state equal or higher losses.

Feral Finster's avatar

I don't claim to know the true numbers, but I am yet to see a Russian analyst giving anything like the 300-500,000+ KIA that is given for Ukraine, and Russia would have had to mobilize or conscript a lot more men if it had.

Chris Manuel's avatar

Hahaha, again the ignorance is embarrassing! Russia has over 350,000 casualties with 150,000+ killed in action!

Feral Finster's avatar

Considering that Ukraine is press ganging any warm live body, demanding that refugees be deported, throwing women and invalids at the front, your comment makes no sense.

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

Listen to CIC - Conflict Intelligence team - On Telegram - it collects and analyzes data about both sides from open sources. Look at Ukrainian government stats published daily from the first day of the conflict. Unlike some crazy statements of Putin and Shoygu about 180000 tanks destroyed by ruzzia and them destroying more Himers that there ever been in Ukraine, these sources are more reliable.

Think why the wives of the men mobilized Sep 2022 are running an action "Return them home" - as they found out that their husbands there indefinitely, until "special war operation" is over - think how many people Russia mobilized and what's the problem with letting them go home? We are not talking only about the mobilized, there are conscripts, contractors, and mercenary. Only in Bakhmut, CHVK Vagner lost estimated 20,000.

Feral Finster's avatar

Sounds like a mishmash of statements that are either inaccurate or don't address the point.

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

I have been listening to the Putin's Dec 14th interview, where he gave some numbers. I did it for you despite strong barfing instinct. Russian analysts, whom I also listen to, did the math. Numbers are very similar to the data that Ukraine and Western intelligence services give. So, currently, Ukraine's number for the personnel losses of Russia is approx. 352K . Putin said, that "partial mobilization" provided 300K, and people signing contract - another 480K. He also said that 600K are currently in Ukraine. Let's add 200K of troops entering Ukraine at the first day of war which we know from previous statements. So, do the math, 300+200+480-600=980-600=380K. Losses of Vagner are likely tainting this number a little. I don't know whether these 380K are all "gruz 200" (dead) or includes wounded. But this is the math, with numbers straight from the horse's mouth.

Feral Finster's avatar

Not sure how you are reaching that conclusion, or why no other analyst reaches a comparable result.

Chris Manuel's avatar

Give me a break... Where do you get such nonsense figures and ideas? You only have to read Russian media to see that you are talking rubbish and they are actively trying to hide the real figures!

What is more the Ukrainian army is volunteer at the moment although a draft may come.... Pretty much all of the Russian army are conscript and they plan a major draft in the near future as thus far over 150,000 Russian soldiers have been killed,,!

Feral Finster's avatar

Um, Zelenskii himself in an interview with German TV said otherwise.

Recommends Lars Lih's avatar

Good work. You could go into how provoking a Russian invasion was linked to a plan to force regime change with sanctions. NATO wanted to turn the clock back to the 90s, asset-stripping the Russian economy with the help of comprador Russians.

Chris Manuel's avatar

Lol... I love how idiots who do not know Russia or Ukraine buy into this NATO horse excrement!

You forget that NATO has sat on the Russian borders since 2004…!! The Baltic countries are closer to Moscow than Ukraine!,!

Shaunak Agarkhedkar's avatar

How many divisions could NATO stage in the narrow strip of land that is Estonia, and how would the logistics work? Compare that with how many could easily be staged in Ukraine for invading Russia, and you'll realise why Russia tolerated the Baltics in NATO, but won't tolerate Ukraine in NATO.

Dan Henry's avatar

Do the neocons pay you by the word for such worthless insights?

Scott's avatar

I don’t see how anyone looked at this “counteroffensive” and honestly considered it a good plan. You don’t assault heavily fortified positions if you can avoid it. You don’t launch an assault without air support and with a massive deficit in artillery tubes. You don’t launch your assault after spending weeks letting the enemy know it is coming, and where. And you don’t attempt a war of attrition against an enemy with three times the population of your own country.

Are NATO military planners just complete blithering idiots? All signs point to Yes.

Feral Finster's avatar

NATO military planners do not care how many Ukrainians are killed. For that matter, neither do their proxies in Kiev.

Hell, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin probably cares more about Ukrainian lives than anyone in Washington, Brussels, or Kiev.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

that must be the dumbest answer I've read in this thread so far

Congrats for being such an obvious Putin's ass-licker

Reader's avatar

I am having so much fun reading your comments. I was waiting for a name calling from you. And you delivered!! Awesome. 😂😂😂

Chris Manuel's avatar

Hahaha... I suggest that you put your life where your mouth is and join Putin's volunteer army! You can then visit the Ukrainian front and see for yourself!

Feral Finster's avatar

Since I am not a Russian, I am nit sure what you think you are getting at, other than I suggest that you join the various paramilitaries supporting the Kiev regime. Kiev is desperate for warm live bodies and gladly accepts foreign volunteers.

Grape Soda's avatar

Or they are just using the Ukrainians and the deaths don’t matter when big picture objectives are at stake.

wrknight's avatar

Keep in mind, these assholes are spending your tax money and mine so that the Zionists can slaughter Palestinians and take their land, and our weapons makers can make record profits.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

keep in mind, the alternative is to let Hamas slaughter 7 million Israelis

wrknight's avatar

That has about as much chance as a snowball in hell.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

Yep. At least we agree on that

Thomas's avatar

Obviously, you know nothing about history. Did you attend a college Ivey League indoctrination factory? 😩

david studdert's avatar

A good article marred by your tepid acceptance of Russian casualties and your utter under estimation of Ukrainian deaths – I mean the BBC publish a solid investigation of Russian casualty figures and came up with a figure nothing near your bloated numbers – if you can see through the nonsense from Washington about the war how come you can’t see through this casualty nonsense?-- the ukies have lost between 400,000 and 500.000 men while the Russians have lost somewhere in the region of 30-40 thousand . Why the discrepancy ? Main reason is that this has been an artillery war and the Russians shoot 10 shells for everyone the ukies manage back. The Russians have been fighting a war of attrition since the beginning of this conflict, their aim is not to seize land but to destroy the enemy's army. They’ve already destroyed 3 Ukrainian armies and if the casualities are as you say, why are the Ukrainians recruiting men aged 65?

second problem with your analysis is the claim that the Russians desperately wanted peace. At the start of the war the Ukrainian army which had been trained, financed, equipped and commandered by NATO military planners was the third biggest in NATO over 200,000. Its a text book rule of war that attackers need a 3:1 ration over defenders before launching offfensive ops. The Russians invaded with 180,000 men – this was an expeditionary force aimed at forcing Ukraine immediately to peace talks. The surrounding of Kiev in the early days of the war was exactly to force Zalensky to talk. When it looked as if the talks were going to succeed the russians withdrew from Kiev.

One of the problems with the West currently is that their leaders and lets be frank, lots of their population, are still living in some 1990’s fantasy land. Your article while pretending to be realistic and being so in some regards, still avoids a total examination of the enormous farcical tragedy of this war by refusing to discuss many of these issues properly.

Punditman's avatar

I don't think anyone knows for sure what the true casualty numbers are because this is probably the most propagandized war in history. I doubt even the combatants know.

I agree with you, it's amazing to read the nonsense that the media says about Russian casualty numbers. It defies logic and demographics. The author should know better than to rely on US sources.

Chris Manuel's avatar

You don't need to rely on US figures! You think as a Westerner as you have no concept of the history, culture and beliefs in Russia or Ukraine!

Check out the number of dead civilians in the Chechen Wars and what Putin did to Grozny!

We in the West believe that the lives of every serviceman and woman is precious... That is not the belief in Russia!

John H's avatar

I do, and I am an american. I;ve a Masters in comparative politics and first read a book on Imperial Russia in 2004. This misnomer about having to be from a place to have a understanding that is at least functional in a countries culture and history is silly and nonsense. It's like when japanese people will claim that no matter how long one lives in Japan they will not ever be able to understand what it is to be Japanese and the culture. It is silly.

Punditman's avatar

You are correct. Everyone should know by now that an American soldier's life is worth untold numbers of innocents abroad. That's just the way empire math works. 58,000 American dead means at least a couple of million dead Vietnamese.

In the first couple of months of the US invasion of Iraq, upwards of 7,000 thousand innocent civilians were slaughtered. The same logic goes for Israel. Genocide Joe knows the score.

Chris Manuel's avatar

Hahaha, I would love to know where you get your ridiculous figures! Even the Russians accept their losses as being higher than the number you are bandying around!

The Conservation Russian dead is 150,000 dead! The Ukrainian dead is approximately half of that!

Putin has never wanted peace and he has always stated that Ukraine has no right to exist as an independent country! You can check that fact on the Kremlin website and read Putin's speeches and essays posted there!

By the way, the Russians are calling up reservists opt onthe age of 65!

Little Nell's avatar

Thank you, Doctor, for an informative and well written expose on the situation. God damn it to hell! Must everything this country does, be wrapped in lies and greed, hostile to all life?

Emma M.'s avatar

I can't believe you quote a source as unreliable as official US state propaganda like the discredited NYT—the disinformationists who sold wars in the Middle East based on fictional WMD—on Ukraine casualties. Do you really think people should believe that although Ukraine's population is 36 million while Ukrainian sources tell us 63% of Ukrainians say they know at least one close relative or friend who have died in the war, with the average number being three, there are somehow only 70,000 Ukrainians killed in action?

https://archive.ph/Jj9r8

Of course, you also repeat US state propaganda and fiction that more Russians are being killed, despite this obviously not being true to anyone who follows reports of casualties on both sides from multiple sources and the word of those in the AFU on the front, or anyone who reads accurate, critical reporting. I assume the purpose of this article is not to help disseminate the official propaganda, so this mistake stands out quite a bit.

Even pro-Ukrainian source MediaZona estimates only 38k Russian military deaths over the whole war, a bit more than half of the made up NYT number of Ukrainian casualties. Right now, they are the lowest they have ever been.

https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng

Quoting fictions that obscure the massive casualties Ukraine is facing also obscures how the US is with the support of its population gleefully committing genocide against Ukraine, using its entire population as cannon fodder against Russia since all nationalities that aren't American are disposable to them.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

So the ones doing a "genocide" (a word so overused it's basically meaningless now, but whatever) of Ukrainian people are... roll the drums... the US?! Better to read that than being blind . but barely

Andy Dean's avatar

He’s got a point though. Ukrainian lives matter so little and their leadership is so tightly controlled that Washington buys and throws them into a grinder wholesale. Even if one in ten kills a Russian, it's an investment paid off. Nobody thinks how the country will look after an attrition of such scale, only how much meat is left.

Chris Manuel's avatar

What a load of tosh! The estimates from reliable sources are over 150,000 Russian dead with about half that for the Ukrainians!

What a shame you do not spent time on Russia. Sites to see some truth for yourself!

Rat's avatar

Don't worry. It will be declared to be Europeans' fault, for not paying enough.

They already started to set up the blame-shifting operation in September: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/zelensky-issues-veiled-threat-destabilize-europe-if-weapons-flow-curtailed

Hudson E Baldwin lll's avatar

This is nothing more than a textbook example of sedition. Shame on you. Vladimir Putin fellation tool is certainly not going to be a good bullet point on your résumé

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Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

As a Russian-Ukrainian, I find it painful that someone still promotes a narrative of poor provoked Putin, and believes that agreements with him can/could be made. Or will/would be honored. There are enough documents now on who created a "civil war" in Donbass ( spoiler alert - same country that did this in Georgia and Moldova). Criminal Girkin ( Strelkov) documented it well himself.

When I see intelligent people taking this side, I realize they don't really comprehend the psychology of a criminal that Putin is, and Russian imperial thinking that enables it. They approach this with Western point of view, theoretically, not having personal experience and not understanding deeply how it works from the inside. This lack of the experience in totalitarism really enabled brainwashing of masses here in the US with the government's covid narrative.

Detroit Dan's avatar

Georgia seems to be a successful intervention by Russia, with minimal loss of life. Moldova has also remained relatively peaceful. The western interventions in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, and Vietnam, on the other hand, have been catastrophic failures with millions of lives lost. Ukraine is getting similar results. Those Ukrainians who didn't trust Russia and consequently embraced western military protection are responsible for the destruction of their country. Don't blame Russia. You had your chance for peace (assuming you are a represetative Ukrainian), and you decided to fight. You picked the wrong side.

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

So I take it YOU personally won't protect your children and your elders and you will peacefully give up your house and possessions when thugs come to YOUR door? You will watch peacefully how your land is being destroyed, the future is taken away from your kids, and peacefully bow to a criminal regime? Then you deserve all the killings and suffering than entails. It is for the lack of knowledge that you call Georgia a "successful intervention". I been there, I lived in the houses of the Georgians, and heard their stories. I won't wish this "successful intervention" on anyone, including yourself.

Detroit Dan's avatar

I guess we'll have to disagree on this. Take care

Laurent Renaud's avatar

I guess she completely destroyed your BS arguments. Take care

Laurent Renaud's avatar

Finally, some common sense here, thanks. The same guys who find contrived, BS reasons to justify Putin’s actions in Ukraine will also tell you he’s ok to do it in Georgia, Moldova, heck even Syria or West Africa. Thats a lot of warzones for a supposed peace-minded soul! 😄

Grape Soda's avatar

As an American, it’s absurd to me that our imperial ambitions are not recognized. Or do you believe the USA has troops all over the world because we’re nice and want to help people? This is a geopolitical fight and neither side are schoolboys.

PFC Billy's avatar

@Alyssa Alyssa

Are you a kindergarten teacher living in Ukraine?

Literally Mussolini's avatar

No, as she explained, she's a psychologist and Putin's therapist. She has bravely risked losing her license by violating professional ethics and revealing to us what her patient Putin is thinking.

Also, as she explained, she has extensive experience working as a top official in Putin's cabinet. She has bravely risked charges of treason for disclosing her "personal experience" and explaining for us "deeply how it works from the inside".

Literally Mussolini's avatar

No, as she explained, she's a psychologist and Putin's therapist. She has bravely risked losing her license by violating professional ethics and revealing to us what her patient Putin is thinking.

Also, as she explained, she has extensive experience working as a top official in Putin's cabinet. She has bravely risked charges of treason for disclosing her "personal experience" and explaining for us "deeply how it works from the inside".

PFC Billy's avatar

@Literally Musolini

Double post?

Also, she seems to be a Canadian of Ukrainian descent. You know who their parents/grandparents were, family values are what they are.

Literally Mussolini's avatar

Wow, how about that double post. I pulled that trick off without even trying.

As for those Canadians of Ukrainian descent, yeah, I know about them.

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

Strange question. Are you implying you know about affairs in Ukraine better than me?

PFC Billy's avatar

@Alyssa Alyssa

Did you really help raise money for ANTI TANK BARRIERS?!

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

When you say "you" whom are you referring to? Me, personally? No I didn't. How is this relevant?

Reader's avatar

Well darling, as a Russian from Ukraine I disagree with you. Here goes your “ethnic” right to “know the truth”. Stop using it in the argument. It sounds stupid. 🤦‍♀️

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

I did not let you call me "darling" - this sounds condescending. but of course, as a "Russian from Ukraine" I almost expected this. Give me better arguments than this.

Boris Petrov's avatar

“Alyssa” regurgitates pure BS. A paid troll.

Jeremy's avatar

Ouch.. why so personal and disrespectful? Alyssa is pitching into the discussion with a different perspective and she’s bashed away.. There’s always more than one side to a story and I’m interested to hear all of them.

Thanks @Alyssa for sharing your perspective, and if anyone has anything sensible to add I’d also be interested. I don’t give a damn about these personal attacks, trolling etc. This is Substack, foster the discussion instead of killing it in the bud please.

Boris Petrov's avatar

Jeremy -- time to grow up...

Laurent Renaud's avatar

And you, time to put up or shut up

Alyssa Alyssa's avatar

And what points do you bring into the conversation besides senseless accusations and an ad hominem attack? You sound like a paid troll yourself.

Laurent Renaud's avatar

Absolutely! Thanks Alyssa for stating the obvious

Brick's avatar

US taxpayers are not funding the sinister debacle in Ukraine. It’s all borrowed money. We are dumping the cost of this war, the Covid over reaction, and a thousand lessor schemes, onto the backs of future generations. If the war’s funding was financed by immediate tax increases, it would have been over in 2022.

Patrick Powers's avatar

We pay today by inflation.

Brick's avatar

Fair enough, and part of the reason too many voters fail to make the connection.

Imagine how long a sitting congressman would last if every household in his district got a massive annual tax bill to fund wars.

Pangolin Chow Mein's avatar

Actually Senator Ron Johnson is a big supporter of the Military Industrial Complex because it doesn’t exacerbate inflation…but it does create solid union jobs in Wisconsin. So Republican senators figured this out in the 1960s that the Military Industrial Complex doesn’t exacerbate inflation and so we could have “guns and butter”.

Brick's avatar

Well, I’m no Milton Friedman, but when the Fed inflates the money supply to buy treasuries, whether that cash/loan is used to buy guns, or butter, the result is devaluation of the currency and acceleration of inflation.

Where am I going wrong?

Pangolin Chow Mein's avatar

Without a strong military our currency would be worth didley squat!! Even now that we are energy dominant we still must patrol the seas so our LNG can get to its destination. LNG exports make the dollar stronger.

Brick's avatar

OK. Fair enough. But this is $100 billion to Ukraine where Victoria directed a coup a decade or so back and where Russia and Zelinski were ready to sign a deal for peace but we intervened. I’m not sure how that makes us stronger or helps the Ukrainian dead and dying.